The Ultimate Book of Boxing Lists

As a long-time boxing afficianado, I thought this book would be very good. I knew Bert Sugar from seeing him each year at the International Boxing Hall of Fame Induction Weekend, and I have read and enjoyed several of his works. This book was not well written, and I found a number of glaring errors in it. It is not worth reading for anyone with an extensive interest in and knowledge of Boxing.

Your not going to go wrong with Teddy Atlas and Bert Sugar. (Also as a hiphop fan it seems that XXL and Source Magazine and the guys who wrote the HipHop Lists book may have gotten a lot of their ideas from Bert Sugar). Should of been more Mike Tyson love in this I felt he was left off of several lists he should of been on but then again him and teddy had a falling out years back...

As far as i know this is one of the last books put out by the late Bert Sugar. I haven't always agreed with Bert Sugar on every thing but always found him to be entertaining and insightfull. Boxing will miss him im sure. Teddy Atlas co-authored this book, another one of boxings great men who knows the very depths of the sport in history as well as science. This book does contain a few errors and typos as previous reviewers have pointed out but i still find this book hard to put down. It also contains lists created by boxers themselves like Ali,Chuvalo,Terrell and more. you don't have to agree with every thing to like it. Just gets your imagination going! I say this is a great book for any fight fan!

If you watch boxing, you are exposed to a gargantuan array of opinion-based analyses. You have the blow-by-blow commentators narrating what you are to believe is taking place inside the ring, the referee who manipulates the action and scolds when he believes the fighters get out of line, the trainers who try to mend the psyche of their fighters in the corner, the audience who cheer for the local favorite, the fighters who have the unwritten obligation to always believe they are better than the other guy, the judges who decide the fate of the bout, the TV viewers who are often in an alcohol-induced frenzy regardless of their man winning or losing, the journalists who dwell on what they saw and record what they believe--and then you have the historians who take everything into consideration and frame the event in time. In "The Ultimate Book of Boxing Lists" We are fortunate to have the greatest historian of the sport in Bert Sugar and a revered trainer in Teddy Atlas who has just about as much experience of the ring as anyone you could ask for. So amidst the confusion of opinions coming from all angles, the only thing that can bring clarity is time--and these guys have witnessed lot of matches and have had a lot of time to think about them. This is quite possibly the most important historical book on the sport of boxing. Teddy Atlas and Bert Sugar not only write lists of who they believe are the best in a specific attribute, but every item on each list has a paragraph giving context to the boxer's position on the list. There are so many lists in this book that it's quite adequate to say we will not need another book like this for fifty years. Read this thoroughly for a good understanding of the history, or keep it as a reference. If you have a crazy good understanding of the sport already, think of it as a good excuse to argue with the experts. Anybody who wants to be more knowledgeable about boxing should absolutely consider getting this book. It has so much information on so many categories that you won't know what to do with all of it. This book is so worth it.

Thank you, for this book. The Boxing Lists by Bert Sugar and Teddy Atlas. It's very accurate and informative. My friends would bet or state who's the better puncher or boxer. Then they would turn to me and I would read the facts from the experts. Thank you, excellent book!!!

This is a list of lists, primarily by boxing historian Bert Sugar and legendary trainer Teddy Atlas. Each man is a king in his own right, the problem being that their literary styles mix like oil and water. With respect to the legendary writer Bert Sugar, he repeats too many of his Gene Shalit-esque one-liners from entry to entry (jokes about pimentos and four-way cold tablets are peppered throughout the text) and while some of his Borscht Belt antics are funny, they grow stale when repeated too often. Another problem with Bert Sugar is his interminable "old timer's syndrome," by which I mean he has a tendency to rate Golden Age (and even earlier) fighters far higher than fighters of the present day, not necessarily based on their performance, but based on nostalgia. Some of the fighters he lionizes don't even have extant footage of them boxing available, so I don't see how he can rate them so high. All fight fans tend to romanticize their own era; talk to Ray Mancini and he'll tell you Camacho and Hagler would wipe the floor with Mayweather (which may be true), but you can only get away with these kinds of assertions when there is at least some footage, some evidence. Too often Sugar conflates legend with history.

Good choice for lover of boxing

I chose to do this rating because i want everyone to see how good this book was. This book is a must have for every boxing fan or even non boxing fans. It has tons of top 10's that you can just read or you can put in your input or opinion. It combines history and comedy to this book and who doesn't like Bert Sugar and Teddy Atlas. 5 star book it was great

Mike Tyson rarely makes an appearance in this book, owing, I presume, to Atlas's beef against him. He only appears negatively, such as in the ring-biting episode. But in lists like "strongest puncher," he's nowhere to be seen.

I never was a boxing fan that agreed with Bert Sugar very often so his lists are like everything else he said and wrote- some of it is dead on and some of it makes you scratch your head. If you can find a used copy of this book of lists for a good low price it is a fun quick read but it is not really for the hardcore fan.

As a long-time boxing afficianado, I thought this book would be very good. I knew Bert Sugar from seeing him each year at the International Boxing Hall of Fame Induction Weekend, and I have read and enjoyed several of his works. This book was not well written, and I found a number of glaring errors in it. It is not worth reading for anyone with an extensive interest in and knowledge of Boxing.

Your not going to go wrong with Teddy Atlas and Bert Sugar. (Also as a hiphop fan it seems that XXL and Source Magazine and the guys who wrote the HipHop Lists book may have gotten a lot of their ideas from Bert Sugar). Should of been more Mike Tyson love in this I felt he was left off of several lists he should of been on but then again him and teddy had a falling out years back...

As far as i know this is one of the last books put out by the late Bert Sugar. I haven't always agreed with Bert Sugar on every thing but always found him to be entertaining and insightfull. Boxing will miss him im sure. Teddy Atlas co-authored this book, another one of boxings great men who knows the very depths of the sport in history as well as science. This book does contain a few errors and typos as previous reviewers have pointed out but i still find this book hard to put down. It also contains lists created by boxers themselves like Ali,Chuvalo,Terrell and more. you don't have to agree with every thing to like it. Just gets your imagination going! I say this is a great book for any fight fan!

If you watch boxing, you are exposed to a gargantuan array of opinion-based analyses. You have the blow-by-blow commentators narrating what you are to believe is taking place inside the ring, the referee who manipulates the action and scolds when he believes the fighters get out of line, the trainers who try to mend the psyche of their fighters in the corner, the audience who cheer for the local favorite, the fighters who have the unwritten obligation to always believe they are better than the other guy, the judges who decide the fate of the bout, the TV viewers who are often in an alcohol-induced frenzy regardless of their man winning or losing, the journalists who dwell on what they saw and record what they believe--and then you have the historians who take everything into consideration and frame the event in time. In "The Ultimate Book of Boxing Lists" We are fortunate to have the greatest historian of the sport in Bert Sugar and a revered trainer in Teddy Atlas who has just about as much experience of the ring as anyone you could ask for. So amidst the confusion of opinions coming from all angles, the only thing that can bring clarity is time--and these guys have witnessed lot of matches and have had a lot of time to think about them. This is quite possibly the most important historical book on the sport of boxing. Teddy Atlas and Bert Sugar not only write lists of who they believe are the best in a specific attribute, but every item on each list has a paragraph giving context to the boxer's position on the list. There are so many lists in this book that it's quite adequate to say we will not need another book like this for fifty years. Read this thoroughly for a good understanding of the history, or keep it as a reference. If you have a crazy good understanding of the sport already, think of it as a good excuse to argue with the experts. Anybody who wants to be more knowledgeable about boxing should absolutely consider getting this book. It has so much information on so many categories that you won't know what to do with all of it. This book is so worth it.

Thank you, for this book. The Boxing Lists by Bert Sugar and Teddy Atlas. It's very accurate and informative. My friends would bet or state who's the better puncher or boxer. Then they would turn to me and I would read the facts from the experts. Thank you, excellent book!!!

This is a list of lists, primarily by boxing historian Bert Sugar and legendary trainer Teddy Atlas. Each man is a king in his own right, the problem being that their literary styles mix like oil and water. With respect to the legendary writer Bert Sugar, he repeats too many of his Gene Shalit-esque one-liners from entry to entry (jokes about pimentos and four-way cold tablets are peppered throughout the text) and while some of his Borscht Belt antics are funny, they grow stale when repeated too often. Another problem with Bert Sugar is his interminable "old timer's syndrome," by which I mean he has a tendency to rate Golden Age (and even earlier) fighters far higher than fighters of the present day, not necessarily based on their performance, but based on nostalgia. Some of the fighters he lionizes don't even have extant footage of them boxing available, so I don't see how he can rate them so high. All fight fans tend to romanticize their own era; talk to Ray Mancini and he'll tell you Camacho and Hagler would wipe the floor with Mayweather (which may be true), but you can only get away with these kinds of assertions when there is at least some footage, some evidence. Too often Sugar conflates legend with history.

Good choice for lover of boxing

I chose to do this rating because i want everyone to see how good this book was. This book is a must have for every boxing fan or even non boxing fans. It has tons of top 10's that you can just read or you can put in your input or opinion. It combines history and comedy to this book and who doesn't like Bert Sugar and Teddy Atlas. 5 star book it was great

Mike Tyson rarely makes an appearance in this book, owing, I presume, to Atlas's beef against him. He only appears negatively, such as in the ring-biting episode. But in lists like "strongest puncher," he's nowhere to be seen.

I never was a boxing fan that agreed with Bert Sugar very often so his lists are like everything else he said and wrote- some of it is dead on and some of it makes you scratch your head. If you can find a used copy of this book of lists for a good low price it is a fun quick read but it is not really for the hardcore fan.

The only issue I had with it is that it needs a new edition. It needs to be updated. However I enjoyed reading about boxings illustrious history and I especially liked reading about the greatest heavyweight ever Muhammad Ali and the best lb for lb fighter ever Sugar Ray Robinson.

A list from two great boxing personalities. I wish I could've seen more than just lists though. I didn't agree with all of it. There are better boxing songs out there! Anybody ever heard of LL COOL Js "MAMA SAID KNOCK YOU OUT"??

Enjoyed the humor of Bert Sugar and found his opinions interesting. Great story teller! Good read!

It's got a nice variety of lists and is nice to have to go back to. Easy to jump around and read whatever ever interests you.

Saw this as a gift opportunity for our son. He loved it! He has really gotten use out of it.

Great

ok

interesting but the writers chronically overate fighters from pre War. If you believe them 90% of the greats fought between 100-1935... that aside it's an interesting comparison of great fighters.. especially those where only memories rather than viedoe based evidence exists

interesting

Great read great way to expanded knowledge of lesser known old time boxers

Great!

Such a good read. Flick open to a page and check out an awesome run down of boxers and lists

every boxing fan needs this!!

Cool daddio

Boxing fans are second only to baseball fans when it comes to loving "lists". That makes this book invaluable to any boxing library. Bert and Teddy have selected interesting topics for lists, filled them with humor, historical insight and even a dash of nostalgia here and there. The only thing that kept me from giving it a full count of stars were the numerous errors throughout. Just a few of the more glaring: Page 47: Marvin Hagler was knocked down by Juan Roldan, not John Mugabi(as stated by the previous reviewer). On the same page, in praise of George Chuvalo's chin, it states that he took punches from "the most fearsome punchers in recent heavyweight history", mentioning Foreman, Frazier, Ali and Quarry. The first two I have no problem with. But Ali?? Quarry??? Fearsome punchers????? That's the first time I've ever heard those two placed into THAT category. Neither of them were considered "fearsome punchers" during their careers. I would replace those two names with Cleveland Williams, Mike DeJohn and Oscar Bonavena; three brutal punchers who possessed far more power than Ali and Quarry. Page 48: Chuvalo fought MIKE DeJohn, not Joey. Joey was Mike's brother and a middleweight who retired before Chuvalo began his pro career. Page 50: "Greatest Latino Fighters". Sugar Ramos and Efren Torres make the list, but not Carlos Monzon? Eder Jofre? Pascual Perez? Carlos Ortiz? Wilfredo Gomez? Kid Gavilan? Kid Chocolate? Page 52-53: "Greatest Southpaws". No Freddie Miller?? Page 54: "Best Left Hooks". Sure we all love Mickey Ward and Henry Cooper (what's not to love?). Both had nice left hooks but neither belongs anywhere near ANY top 10 list of "best left hooks". Those two had better left hooks than Sam Langford(who twice knocked out Harry Wills with single left hooks)? Sonny Liston? Eduardo Lausse? Ruben Olivares? Al Gainer? Pipino Cuevas? Any halfway learned boxing historian can sit here for half a day and name fighters with provably more potent left hooks than those two. Page 57: Lou Nova was a yoGI...not a yoGA Page 67: "Greatest British Fighters". Look at the resumes of both "Peerless" Jim Driscoll and Freddie Welsh. They outstrip over half the guys on this list and their omission is as egregious an error as any in the book. Page 70: "Henry" Greb? Last I checked he always went by "Harry" ;-) Page 71: It states that Ray Robinson "fought all the greats of his time". This is inaccurate. He never fought Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Cocoa Kid and several other formidable fighters of his day. Page 74: The oft-repeated myth that Billy Papke "sucker punched" Stanley Ketchel during the pre-fight instructions is again repeated here. A simple look at the next-day reports from any primary newspaper source (The Los Angeles Times and Los Angeles Examiner being the most thorough in their coverage)dispels the myth. There is no mention whatsoever of any cheap shot taking place. Referee Jim Jeffries would have disqualified Papke on the spot (after scruffing Billy and launching him into the cheap seats). Wouldn't Ketchel and his manager have screamed bloody murder after the fight if this cheap shot occurred? Read the post-fight interviews. Their consensus? "The better man won". It is time to put the Papke-Ketchel "Sucker Punch" myth to rest. It never happened. Page 83: "Fastest Hands". Beau Jack and Henry Armstrong?? Sure, they had speed. But once again, this is the first time I have ever seen them make any "fastest hands" lists. The films definitely don't support such a contention. You could name many more fighters with faster hands. Page 85: On this page is another oft-repeated myth- that Billy Conn "danced away" from Joe Louis for 12 rounds in their famous encounter, jabbing and moving and keeping out of danger. A simple look at the existing film reveals a different truth: Conn in fact was MANY TIMES right there in the danger zone, often INITIATING exchanges with Louis and OUTPUNCHING him. Billy mixed up his boxing and slugging beautifully in this fight. He did not "run" or "dance away" for 12 rounds. He was often quite aggressive. Page 86: Who is PARNELL Whitaker? Sorry guys...hate to nitpick, but you're professionals. You should know better. Page 117: "Take Two To Give One Fighters". Joe Grim does not belong on this list. He was more of a "Take 2 to Get Up and Take Two More" fighters. Page 143: "Greatest Irish-American Fighters". Bob Fitzsimmons? He had some Irish parentage, but he was Cornish (and proud of it). Cornwall and New Zealand have a stronger claim to Fitz than Irish-America. Jimmy McLarnin? He was born in Ireland and immigrated to Canada if memory serves. Perhaps he became a naturalised citizen of America and therefore deserving of a place on this list. Since he was Irish-born I've always just considered him Irish. Page 135: "Powederpuff Punchers" Both Tommy Loughran and Nicolino Locche should be near the top of this list. Page 156: Mentions Charley Burley as being a victim of a "color curtain". Seeing as there were several black champions who were around when Burley fought (and two of them wouldn't fight him), it is a bit impertinent to suggest that Burley was avoided because of his color. He was avoided because he was GOOD. Page 161: "Greatest Defensive Fighters". Nicolino Locche is a huge omission here. And Gene Tunney was a great boxer but overrated defensively, IMO. His reputation as a "defensive wizard" was based mainly upon his two safety-first performances against a past-prime Jack Dempsey. If you read the newspaper accounts of most of his fights before the Dempsey bouts it is plain to see that he really wasn't all that hard to tag. I'm not suggesting he was easy, but a "defensive wizard"? That's a bit over the top and not supported by the historical evidence. Page 163: I've heard that the myth of Pep winning a round without throwing a punch is just that- a myth. Worth looking into to be sure. Page 192: It lists the Tyson-Seldon as taking place on 8/6/2008. It took place on 9/7/1996. Page 193: Sonny Liston knocked-out Floyd Patterson with a left hook in their first bout, not a "right". Page 206: Wyatt Earp referee'd the Sharkey-Fitzsimmons fight, not "Bat Masterson". Page 216: OK, this one is a personal issue with me. George Foreman "earned" his shot with Evander Holyfield? How? He fought a collection of nobodies, circumvented all the top contenders and HYPED his way into a completely undeserved title shot. In a way it represented everything that is wrong with boxing. There were more errors and questionable calls, but I've written enough. I hope I haven't been too harsh in my analysis but hey...like I said before, these guys are seasoned, learned boxing men. We have to expect and demand the best out of them. But I gave it four stars anyway because the good ultimately outstrips the bad. Nice job guys...now FIX THOSE ERRORS BEFORE THE SECOND PRINTING!;-)

Lists, lists, lists. In no other sport are fans as engrossed by (subjective) "greatest", "best", etc lists than in boxing and, in THE ULTIMATE BOOK OF BOXING LISTS", boxing writer and commentator Bert Randolph Sugar and trainer, analyst, commentator, and former boxer Teddy Atlas provide plenty of them. Sure, there are instances when a selection on a list makes NO sense whatsoever (fro example, Sugar ranking the great Tony Canzoneri as the 12th greatest all-time pound-for-pound fighter DESPITE excluding him from his all-time top ten bantamweight and featherweight lists and only rating him as the 10th best lightweight and fourth best junior welterweight in history), and, yes, Sugar and Atlas often bow to the opinion of the mob (e.g. ranking Sugar Ray Robinson and Henry Armstrong 1-2 on their respective lb-4-lb lists; making Robinson #1 on their "Top Technicians" and "Greatest Ring Generals" lists despite the fact that, while he was a GREAT offensive fighter, Sugar Ray wasn't especially difficult to hit and even slow fighters like Jake LaMotta could often successfully cut off the ring on him [check out the extant Robinson fight films for confirmation]; and rating Muhammad Ali #3 on their "Greatest Boxing IQs" list, predictably mentioning Ali's "Rope-a-dope" strategy against George Foreman, but ignoring the fact that, for instance, despite fighting each of them three times, the "Greatest" NEVER figured out how to defend against and negate Joe Frazier's left hook [he could have, for example, heldihis right glove near his right cheek and continually punched or pushed Smokin' Joe's shoulder, respectively], how to counteract Ken Norton's catch-Ali's-jab-with-an-open-right-glove-and-immediately-counter-with-a-jab technique [by utilizing feints and right cross leads], or that the former marine was ineffective when forced to fight on the retreat), but they also occasionally ignore conventional (boxing) wisdom (e.g. "only" placing Ali 7th on their "Fastest Hands" list) and actually (and refreshingly) include many "old-time" boxers whom most younger boxing fans probably have never heard of on many lists ( for ex., honoring Billy Graham on their "Best Chins", Joe Gans on their "Best Jabs", Packey McFarland on their "Top Technicians", Young Griffo and Mike Gibbons on their "Greatest Defensive Fighters", and Johnny Dundee and Sid Terris on their "Best Footwork" lists). And, unlike the case with most (subjective) boxing lists, Sugar and Atlas provide reasons for their selections (or,at least, provide background info for each selection for the benefit of the uninitiated). In addition to the usual types of "greatest"/"best" lists bantered about by boxing fans (for ex., "Greatest Southpaws", "Best Body Punchers", "Greatest Italian-American Fighters", "Most Controversial Decisions", "Most Famous Draws"), Sugar and Atlas include lists of a less esoteric variety (such as "Top Boxing Movies" and "Best Boxing Songs"), lists that are primarily for comic relief (like Tommy Hearns' "Five Reasons I Won the Rematch against Sugar Ray Leonard" list), lists contributed by well-known boxers that answer THE key question that fight fans would like to ask them (e.g. slugger Earnie Shavers' "The Ten Hardest Punches I Ever Threw" and steel-chinned George Chuvalo's "The Hardest I Was Ever Hit" lists), lists that are just plain weird ( such as the "[Boxers with the] Flattest Noses" list and former WBA heavyweight champ Ernie Terrell's "My Favorite Singers and Musical Groups" list), and several lists that demonstrate that, with the exception of baseball figures, members of the "busted beak fraternity" are the most quotable in the sporting world. And, while one will certainly take issue with many of the authors' selections (and exclusions - how the hell can they include Micky Ward - MICKY WARD!- on their list of "Best Left Hooks" AND ecxlude Ruben Olivares, Sonny Liston, Mickey Walker, Billy Petrolle [B4 he had the bone chips removed], and Nigel Benn? And, while we're at it, how could they overlook Julian Jackson for their "Biggest Punchers" list? - sorry, couldn't help myself), if one doesn't take them too seriously, this book will prove, on the whole, an entertaining and informative read for BOTH casual and "hard core" boxing fans (indeed, first-time Sugar readers will warm to Mr. I-always-wear-a-fedora-and-have-an-unlit-cigar-in-my-mouth/hand's writing style; however, fans who have already read some of the former Ring Magazine and Boxing Illustrated publisher's other books will feel a sense of deja vu, as he is prone to recycling his favorite turn of phrases and passages in most of his works). A couple more things ... the book doesn't have a whole lotta pix and it lacks an index. On the other hand, each list is preceded by a nice little intro. Enjoy. UPDATE: Forgot to mention ... as is the case with many of Sugar's books, this one is littered with errors - some that are clearly typos (such as crediting Canzoneri with forty-four kayo victories, but only THIRTY-NINE wins), some that are factual errors that were probably made by someone (e.g. an intern) other than Sugar (for instance, declaring that John "The Beast" Mugabi was the only fighter to score a knockdown against Marvin Hagler, when that honor actually belongs to Juan Roldan - and even then it was more of a slip), and some errors that are probably attributable to Sugar, whom I noted in another book review is more boxing writer than historian (for ex., claiming that Oscar "Battling" Nelson won the world lightweight title from Jimmy Britt in 1905, when the real champ at the time was Gans).

Teddy Atlas has a public disdain for Mike Tyson, and it’s apparent in Iron Mike’s glaring omission from almost every category in the book (it’s a solid argument that he should be among the Top 10 Heavyweights of All Time, but ridiculous that he’s not in the Biggest Punchers list; insane). Instead Atlas and Bert Sugar (who knows better, but I’m guessing was in cahoots with Teddy) put Tyson in less-meaningful lists like Most Intimidating Fighter, and Best Killer Instinct. Boxing history is too important for your personal beefs, guys. Max Kellerman and Jim Lampley should re-do this book of lists properly.

This is Written by knowledgable boxing experts. Great for learning of the past-greats or reference material. For all fans of the sport.

Flipped through this at the bookstore, decent, but very lacking in some lists. A lot of the lists center around "concensus" (since it's Sugar and Atlas you should expect no less. A book much more for the casual fan.

this has alot of good boxing list, except in one of them where i thought it was B.S but still a great book for a boxing fan...

Looked forward to reading this but very disappointed far to many lists & repeat information not what I expected pity about when I've lots of good books of eBay

Unlike most other boxing books very readable and insights that are not known generally, the authers really know their boxing,

Teddy and Bert enough said

Pretty simple to boxing fans this is a fascinating read that might start a few arguments but for boxing tragics such as i a must read.

Great source of fantastic knowledge